Let's Upgrade this Juggernaut!
By Damn Boris
Posted on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 08:57:01 AM EST

Alright, months after launch and millions of copies sold, Epic's juggernaut is out and on the rampage.  So what's next?  More Gears of War of course, but we all realize that is going to take time.  That's ok, we're expecting downloadable content to sate our appetites and keep us playing till the next coming.  OK, does that mean we have all that we can have or want?  Nah.  We want more.  What we want to see is EPIC come alive and out of their cocoon.  How can they do that you wonder?  Well, if you don't, I'm going to lay out an appeal to EPIC anyways.  

I enjoy our site here, and have been happy to see the steady contributions of our regulars and fresh POVs from newcomers to Gearheads of War.  Our site has become a vibrant sounding board for all things Gears and diverse enough to handle many things in between.  Here, there is a steady flow of topics, news, speculation, and discussion that draws people here.  All of this good brings to my attention the stark contrast to Epic's own Gears of War website.  Since Emergence Day it has been largely left dormant and inactive.  

My "beef" with things as they are is this.  EPIC, you now have a legit full-on like Donkey Kong Juggernaut in Gears of War.  It is the killer ap every game developer is craving to have.  Now that you got it what do you do?  Well, after pushing it like crack prior to launch, you can't just sit back and let that high go by.  No.  You got to keep the baby looking fresh.  

What I'm saying is how about some updates to your own website. Fellas, that site has been abandoned like a mange infested stray dog.  Prior to Emergence Day (launch) that site was the tip of the spear.  We could look there for updates, communications, highlights, and trailers.  Now, its all old news not updated in ages.  You guys have got a game on your hands, but you got a community out here with us that wants to get more.  Bring us in like Bungie has.  That's right, I said it, bring us in like Bungie has.  Your big time now and I think all of us here and out there would like to see EPIC give new life and purpose to their own Gears of War site.  

Make your site the tip of the spear again.


Display:

Wow

  You're right, GOW dot com was the place to go to hear about whats happening.  I agree no follow through, and as we all know your grand slam will just drop past second base without follow through.  
  I think it would be cool if for every (if any) update they cook up they should do a timer like there used to be here before Gears was released.  You guys remember that?  It was awesome, I would be like "ONLY 2 MONTHS, 5 DAYS AND 17 HOURS LEFT!!!"
  But to me this is Gears of War Central.

Let's get it own!

by Macaface on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 09:24:19 AM EST


Couldn't agree more!

Bungie has only been able to offer one thing for about 2 years now, that being their multitude of online content every week to keep the masses entertained in the interim.   It's the only reason that I check out their website every other day, to see if any other big news has dropped.  They focus heavily on their community and foster an environment which allows for the fervor to grow stronger.

The Halo 3 hype machine is largely community driven through updates like they do, not through huge press events and other more standard approaches.  

Software development is a fickle thing, let alone gaming development.  I can empathize with their desire to begin working on the next product, and how hard it can be to work towards that while supporting their existing product.  There is a balance to be achieved their, and perhaps Epic will reach their desired "Nirvana" resolving all issues that people have.

I am going to just put this out there:  I would rather have Epic continue to develop future content and update existing product versus work on their website and other standard online content.

Leader, Masters Few www.MastersFew.com

by Master Pre on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 09:27:00 AM EST


spot on

you guys nailed it. But this website is by far my favorite to get all my gears of war news.  

by Dan Foster on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 10:18:32 AM EST


I definitely agree

It's something that I've actually mentioned to my brother several times and was really the impetus behind me creating this site.  They need someone who is a community manager like Frank O'Connor because that's how you keep the excitement going between installments.  Bungie created a near perfect model in my opinion.  I love their weekly updates and the summaries of Humpday Challenges are great.

Of course, Epic has a much, much smaller team, but Mark Rein popping into the message board on occasion isn't good enough for me as a huge fan of this franchise.  I want more from them.  And where is the swag?  I want a Gears hoodie, etc.

You can't say that they didn't expect to sell as well as it has.  You'd be naive to think so.  I just think they need to embrace the fandom as soon as humanly possible.  And an official message board just doesn't cut it in this day and age of blogs and community managers.

Great post, Boris.

Porn is my porn. Gears is pretty awesome, though.

by papi blez on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 12:36:28 PM EST


The Bungie Way

Agreed ...

Though Epic has a small staff, the profits that they are generating more than justify a little add'l headcount for community support.  (3 million copies @ $30 to Epic per copy* = $90 million).  They've said the game took $10 million to develop, so I think there's some change to spare.

This is in *their* interest.  Keeping the community alive ensures that the Epic and its games develop and maintain a steady 360 fanboibase.  Gears is obviously a fantastic start ...

Bungie is simply a master of this ... that's strike 2 for Epic (Bungies the better community supporter, Bungie's got the better MM/lobby system) ....

* I made the '$30' figure up ... but I'd think it's reasonable (can anyone confirm/deny??)

by geekinabox on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 01:40:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Profits...

There are a lot of factors that would go into the "true" profits for this game.  

It's safe to say that they are doing alright with this game.  

In a profit driven industry, it's hard to convince upper management to dedicate man hours and capital towards stuff like community support and the likes.  

This is not myself trying to condone how they have approached this, just another point of view.

Bungie has a tireless dedication to this, some of which I care about, but 90% of which I don't.  I personally don't get into the whole FanFic, hypothetical discussions on future iterations of their potential products.  I do like talking about possible design changes, mechanics, and stuff like that.  

I do software testing, and our "niche" allows me to really understand the importance of taking a customers requirements and translating that into our product.  Someday gaming companies will truly figure this out, because if you really listen to the customer, it will allow for your product to reach heights that you could never do internally within your given company.

If Epic developed a formalized approach to integrating customers ideas into real world changes, life would be good.  I'm speaking in ignorance here, that being they may already of this sort of thing implemented, in which case their process is broken.

Leader, Masters Few www.MastersFew.com

by Master Pre on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 03:24:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]


i am gamer, hear me roar ....

Good point ... this is a very cultural thing in the gaming biz that hopefully studios will better figure out over time.  Gamers are a fickle bunch, and, especially when you're a AAA title trying to develop an active franchise (especially online), giving the right kind of attention to appease the community is huge (and difficult).

Like you, I'm not a big fan of fanfic (unless RvB counts (kinda)), and I've had it up to here with "what's your favorite weapon polls", but outside of that, even the community feedback and support that Bungie gives about supporting & improving the game it great (and smart ... it's kept them on top).

by geekinabox on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 04:01:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Grain of Salt...

Thanks for you response.  There is a flipside to my point, in that customer input must be valid for this to work.

Every kid with an opinion out there will be screaming for what they see as "improvements", which in reality will probably be nothing that is even relevant to the game or helping it grow.

My supporting evidence for this would be any gaming forum in the world, and the fact that there is always a small army of ungrateful brat's just waiting to take their aggressions out with a whirl of acronyms & terms (wtf, noob, etc, ...) completely disrupting any possitive discussions that may be occuring.

Leader, Masters Few www.MastersFew.com

by Master Pre on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 04:25:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]


letting the people speak

>>customer input must be valid for this to work.
>>Every kid with an opinion out there will be
>>screaming for what they see as "improvements",

I was thinking about that recently ... unfortunately, forums kinda suck for customer feedback.  There's a lot of whining, in-fighting, repetition, rants, etc.  IOW, they've got the problems you describe.

I was trying to think of a way to better format such feedback.

One idea I had was the notion of a site dedicated to bug tracking and fix prioritization.  I could work something like this (admittedly, this idea is half-baked):

  • users submits bugs and/our suggestions for improvements/enhancements (maybe those 2 item types are tracked separately).
  • some core group of moderators reviews those submissions and decides whether it makes it into the master list.  this is mostly to avoid duplication, not necessary to filter out stupid ideas)
  • every register site users has, let's say 100 votes to pass out ... each user can dedicate as may or as few of those votes to each bug/fix as (s)he deems important.  IOW, the user was a limited number of votes, and he sets his/her priroties based on how he doles out his votes.
  • users can reallocate/re-divvy the votes at any time.
  • at certain set points (time-based, or after a patch), the votes are re-set to 0, and the users have to re-vote.  
  • Users can also perhaps cast votes for an item to be closed/remove from the list ... or, perhaps, every week, then bottom 50% of items are removed from the list, to keep it manageable.

Just some ideas ... I'm sure there are holes in this idea...

you might still have a forum backing the site, but I think fronting it with an active polling/voting mechanism would be cool, would be more reflective of user interest (dare I sya democratic), and be easier than sifting through forums of awkward pre-adolescent ramblings.

by geekinabox on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 04:53:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Well stated,

geekinabox hit it dead on.  And many of your ideas fall into line with standard means of operations within all software development companies.  

Usually they establish what is called an "External STR Database", STR standing for "Software/System Trouble Report".  This database allows for a formalized report to be generated and tracked to ensure it is either determined to not be a problem, or it is resolved within the code.

There are formalized approaches for this, as Epic has undoubtedly implemented, and a "moderated" forum or input means for these reports to come in from the general public would be huge.  

There are a myriad of ways to approach such implementation, and this would really allow for the community not only to be informed on how things are going within Epic, but also have the means to indirectly influence the development of future updates/etc.

The gaming community has matured, in that there is a large portion of gamers that are no longer the pimply faced, stereotypical teenagers of the 90's.  We have now matured, married, and educated ourselves (for the most part! hahah).  A lot of us are professionals in our own right, and are quite competent.  Just imagine if they could establish a means by which to bring our well thought out ideas to the table.  

The potential is there, it just hasn't been fully realized within the gaming community.

Leader, Masters Few www.MastersFew.com

by Master Pre on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 05:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]


I must be a dork

I absolutely love the Halo novels (though I still haven't completely finished the third) and I'm waaaaaay into the storyline/fiction created around the universe.  I tried to explain a bit of it to my wife the other day and she looked at me like I had just grown an extra head.

Porn is my porn. Gears is pretty awesome, though.

by papi blez on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 06:47:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]


You know

Gears, as we know it today, has a huge window for genre-tales and separate story lines.  14yrs of untold tales of Marcus, Dom, and the rest is pretty tempting.  Not to mention what the Pendullum Wars were like.  

Ready to finish all the Fights!

by Damn Boris on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 10:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]


I do to,

really like the Halo novels.  I think they added a lot to the games and am glad they made them.  I am also looking forward to the movie, crosses figners.  I hope they make a some Gears novels, I think that would rock!

Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid! Things perceived as real are real in their consequences.

by Major Dan on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 11:46:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Halo Novels all the way

  Yeah I'm reading Ghosts of Onyx right now, on page 108.  And they are going to have 2 MORE books after this one.  Fall of Reach is still my favorite.
  The Halo Graphic novel was awesome too, but back to the discussion I like the Bungie forums a bit, it's annoying how many rumors, ideas, brainstorms show up and guess what, they don't matter.  Not to mentiont the stupid polls... do the Forums Ninja's get paid??  If so that's cool, if not they're nuts.

  Also don't forget besides Halo 3 there will be Halo Wars, and the Wingnut game that hasn't been detailed but confirmed.

Let's get it own!

by Macaface on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 12:00:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]


My 2.3 cents (with exchange rate)

"do the Forums Ninja's get paid??  If so that's cool, if not they're nuts."

They're nuts.

As others have pointed out, there's plenty of room in the Gears storyline for additional material; heck, with that closing cinematic (spoiling no spoilers) they've given themselves plenty of room to flesh out their universe.  I'd be surprised if we didn't see something else follow on from the game.  Maybe (probably) not to the same extent as Halo but something anyway.

As to community feedback, forums have a, er, "checkered" potential.  Since the participants are self-selected, and they're bound to be vocal (if they're quiet, or just content instead of overjoyed/enraged, they won't post!), you have to be really careful that forum feedback isn't reflecting the opinions of a vocal minority.  It's best if you can compare the forum stuff with observations of actual play.

As to community development, well, all I can say is that it's good business as well as rewarding... if you can allocate the resources necessary to do it well, and that (IMO) isn't as easy as some seem to think.

 -- Steve finally finished off RAAM last night on Casual, and enjoyed the heck out of Gears' campaign.

by Anton P Nym on Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 09:48:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Maybe the reason is...

I don't know the history of Bungie back when there was just Halo CE, but I imagine that it was not as it is today.  Bungie and fans have had plenty of time to build their empire.  Gears I assume is spending more time trying to get out more content, game improvements than it is with other minor projects such as the ones you all have mentioned.  Including plans for a sequel.  We expect everything to be neatly tied up with a bow.  Red v Blue is a show that I love, but Bungie didn't create that.  The fans did.  One thing that may help is a more active participation by Cliffy and the other leaders at Gears (regular podcasts, news, humpday fragfest Gears team vs clans such as Gearheads, etc..).  Copying from Bungie on certain areas isn't such a bad thing.  Any other ideas?

"I do not tell lies, but I am a savage".

by Kenai 91 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 04:25:32 PM EST


Further elaboration...

Like I had stated before, one thing that I think is missing would be any sort of "Suggestions Box" for the community.  

Leader, Masters Few www.MastersFew.com

by Master Pre on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 04:45:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]


listen to me!!! i'm important!!!

The Bungie thing that should be copied is "be engaged with the community" ... how you do this can certainly vary.

See my "letting the people speak" post above for a half-assed idea that i think would be interesting and useful.

by geekinabox on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 04:56:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Excellent point, but...

Bungie actually had a great community since they made Marathon and Myth. Both of those franchises, while they were fairly successful for their time, were by no means blockbusters. I think Bungie fostered a small, but strong, community BECAUSE it was a small company. Since the success of Halo, they've been able to maintain and improve upon their connections to the community, but it wasn't their success that gave them the impetus to do so.

I'm not saying that Epic shouldn't reach out to the community more, I'm just pointing out that this isn't something that suddenly becomes easy to do just because you made a multi-million-selling game. I think Gears was their first attempt at "creating" a community, and with CliffyB at the helm, they did a pretty good job. He was very open with the fans, whether through his MySpace, or his blog, or whatever. Now, they just have to keep the train rolling.

"The creatures were friendly and could see in four dimensions. They pitied the Earthlings for being able to see only three." -Slaughterhouse-5

by StarborneRanger on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 05:03:17 PM EST


well...

I would rather have them work on the patch and DLC instead of the official site.

Also, EPIC does almost all their announcements and posts daily at the forum listed below.

http://www.gearsforums.epicgames.com

Eat A Peach

by Zoso Fan on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 11:46:23 PM EST


oh yeah,

good luck on the official forums! They are full of tons of whining and complaints! :)

btw, Geek in a Box made two very good/true posts!

Eat A Peach

by Zoso Fan on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 11:48:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Actually that's another reason

I created this site.  I wanted a place where people could just talk about the game and not be full of tools.

Porn is my porn. Gears is pretty awesome, though.

by papi blez on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 01:07:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]


right on boris

bungie folks are the masters of this craft and epic can defenitely learn this from them.

by naveeda on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 03:25:27 AM EST