The Wii's Threat to the Hardcore

posted by papi blez

Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 02:47:36 PM EDT

Sorry for my relative absence this week.  I've been busy writing other things and one of those items was actually a column that N'Gai Croal asked me to write for Level Up.  If you want to read the column, click here.

It deals with the effect that the Wii is going to have on future game development and where the development dollars are going to go.  I speculate where those dollars might be going because of the success of the Wii, and I don't think I'm far off especially when you consider that EA and Ubisoft both just recently came out and talked about the importance of development of games for the Wii.

I appreciate the opportunity that N'Gai gave me to write for Level Up.  It's one of the best blogs out there with the most thought and effort put behind it.  I hope you like the column and it sparks some discussion.  Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I honestly don't feel like the Wii's success is going to lead to good things for hardcore gamers and I outlined the reason why.  

As for the FFF sign up sheet, I'll put it up later on tonight.  I don't know whether I can make it tomorrow night or not so I'm going to wait to put up that thread.  In the meantime, enjoy discussing the Wii and its impact on gaming.

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Comments Disabled | 26 comments

  •  Great Analysis and Cute Daughter (none / 0)

    I total agree with your analysis.  The Wii is going to take market share away from those things that currently amuse the non- or casual gamer.  I don't think it will much effect the hardcore gamer.  But I don't think the big shops will take away from the production of hardcore games in order to make the mini-games.  They may use the mini-games to grow their development teams.  But the big money still has to be in the likes of Gears and Halo.  I'd spend a lot more for Gears of War 2 then I would for a bunch of party games.  But, then again, I'm hardcore.  And your daughter is adorable.

    Give a man a match and you keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

    by is not null on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:04:35 PM EDT

  •  Great write up (none / 0)

    But when was the last time a nintendo game sold like gears,halo, grandtheft etc.. Untill you see those kind of numbers I dont think we have anything to worry about.

    by Dan Foster on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:13:10 PM EDT

  •  i love (none / 0)

    WII

    Really Doe is better than Seriously Doe.

    by Really Doe on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:30:32 PM EDT

  •  A problem with your arguement. (none / 0)

    Counter Argument:

    Nintendo DS and MMOs

    Japan is dominated by the DS.  It is the number one console there and has been for nearly 2 years.  Lets see what happened there....

    Nintendo, 2years later on a console with a faster dev turn around than PS2/Wii, is the only SUCCESSFUL training game develouper.  All others have failed miserably and have to resort to deceptive packaging for sales.  Even in the rarer case of a unique training game title being develouped before Nintendo (Eye training in this case) the non-Nintendo product failed, and the later Nintendo product succeeded.

    What did the usual 3rd parties develoup on the DS in Japan?  More training games?  Nope!  In many cases their best titles and best develoupment teams chocked out Japanese "hardcore" games galore.  (RTS / RPG)

    The DS has had 4 Final Fantasy series games (5th in dev now)
    The DS has had 2 Dragon Warrior series games (and #9 is in exclusive develoupment)
    The DS has had the usual slew of Anime fighting games (many good in their own right)  several quite successful sellers.

    The point is this:  The solid develoupers of hardcore games continued.  It was only the mediocre develoupers that hopped on the Training bandwagon (and failed).  The same will happen in NA.  The develoupment for hardcore games will continue by the publishers known for it, while the crummy C-title devs will latch on.

    The Hardcore community is BETTER OFF WITHOUT THESE DEVELOUPERS "."  
    Let them flood the market with Cgrade training games instead of crappy C FPS / Action games I say.  They would not have contributed anything worth mentioning to the hardcore community.

    Develoupers develoup what they want to, and well known hardcore develoupers aren't going to start selling out to instead bring you "Baby Training" any more than they were selling out to bring you "Hello Kitty Adventure Island" when WoW started bringing in cash hand over fist.  Hell maybe the hardcore community will get its own training games...  I for one would welcome such titles as "Jedi Lightsaber Training" and "Combat Readiness Simulation"

    by DeadMilliken on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:58:05 PM EDT

  •  preconceptions of hardcore (none / 0)

    First, its funny how people who describe themselves as 'hardcore' go on a rant against types of games (or even consoles). I think of a hardcore gamer as someone who just loves games, period. Now, you may be a hard core 'action' fan, or a FPS fan. A fan. Not exactly hard core if you're being picky about your diet of games.

    Second, all of these mom's and grandma's who are picking up the Wii's are doing it not just for them, but the whole family. Dad and son need some great action games just as mom and daughter want some bejewelled. Don't blame the Wii for the developers' decisions. Start a campaign against them telling them to wake up and smell the opportunities.

    Third, you are more than willing to mention upcoming games on the 360 and PS3 that cater to your tastes, but you'd think the Wii doesn't have upcoming games that could be just as engaging. Sure, you give a passing nod to Metroid, but Umbrella Chronicles could be fun, Mario Galaxy is sure to be something, Smash Bros has people interested, Ghost Squad just needs decent control, Dewey's Adventure looks sugary but could have enough meat to be fullfilling. Sure, its all 'could be' but until a game is released aren't they all?

    Look, its simple if you're afraid of what the Wii brings. Vote for the types of games you want to see with your dollar. Buy Manhunt 2, buy Scarface, buy Godfather Blackhand. People need to stop bitching and start doing something about it. I own 2 games, Zelda and Godfather. RE4 will make it 3. See, I'm voting with my dollar. (Then again, my gamecube has a broadband adapter... Can't win them all I guess.)

    by bustin98 on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 04:49:13 PM EDT

  •  No mistaking that you are Cliffy's brother (none / 0)

    GREAT photo!  (and your daughter is beautiful!)

    My brother and I look so alike (though 5 years apart) that when riding on a train in Japan, all the passengers keep doing double takes.  After a while, we started to have fun with it and sit in different cars.  When a passenger would walk through, the over-the-top rubbernecking and expressions we got were hilarious - "Didn't I just pass you in the other car?!?!  I must be losing my mind!"

    Anyway, papi, you write really, REALLY well. I will respond to the article when I have more time.  I just wanted to get that out there.

    Well done!

    by 3Suns on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 04:53:00 PM EDT

    •  seond that (none / 0)

      nice to see you guys!

      by naveeda on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 07:28:06 PM EDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'll third it (none / 0)

        Yeah Blez you write very well, you must write a lot in your job. You make some good points. Referring to the game industry possibly being a zero-sum game where development sways towards gimicky games is a reasonable concern but I think it will improve game quality in the long run.

        Developers/publishers will start to compartmentalize their teams and the game industry will begin to look more like the movie industry. It's already bigger and we have ratings. We can think of Gears and Halo as the blockbuster's like Ocean's 13 or Transformer's that come around  every couple of years (or annually in the movie industry) and the new hybrid mass market games as the low-budget, high-return flics like "Knocked Up" or those Sundance flics.

        by johnart on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 10:05:41 PM EDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That's funny (none / 0)

      Although Cliff has always been rail skinny and had problems gaining weight and I gain weight if I look at food for too long.  At the same time, I've always been able to lift weights pretty easy and gain muscle, but he's always had a struggle at that.

      Thanks for the kind words about my daughter and the article.  I'm honored that N'Gai thought enough of me to ask me to do it.  It's funny cause all the fanboys on all the boards are ripping me apart because I'm Cliff's brother rather than actually talking about what I discuss in the piece.

      by papi blez on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 09:17:52 PM EDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Haha, (none / 0)

        guess being Cliff's brother has it's Pros and Cons.

        But as some have said it seems you have a nad (or whatever the word is) for writing. Seeing as you have a disliking to the non-gamers liking the Wii due to hype relates to my dismay of people liking a lot of things that weren't 'mainstream' (bands, sleeper hits, that sorta thing). I can see how it's bothering you since all people are going for with the Wii is because of the hype and how the general games are mainly for Casual gamers (Wii Sports, Wii Play, Mario games). Hopefully though the Wii will have better titles instead of first-party games. We'll just see how the carpet rolls down the road.

        "Vuht? Ze Panzerz? WHO LET ZE PANZERZ OUWT?!?!?!?!"

        by Grymm on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 09:29:53 PM EDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Dont worry maam - i'm from the internet (none / 0)

    i think you are a bit paranoid that with wii's success, developers/publishers will not focus that much on hardcore gamers, instead they will put their money on the new found land of wii players, which are mostly non-hardcore gamers.

    One thing is for sure, hardcore players are abandoning wii, so making more Zelda:TW like games doesnt make a lot of sense. This means the market is getting divided pretty fast and there is going be hardcore gamers with their PC/PS3/360 on one side(group A) and a lot of non-gamers or new addicts on the wii side(group B). We should see a good flow of players from group B to A but not the other way round.

    This does validate your argument that a lot of money is going to go into a section which hardcore gamers dont care about but in the long run the flow of gamers to hardcore side will make up for the losses. Otherwise its just too hard to get non-gamers to pickup a $500 console and get pwn'ed all over the world. it doesnt work, i've tried.

    by naveeda on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 07:27:12 PM EDT

    •  wha? (none / 0)

      "One thing is for sure, hardcore players are abandoning wii"

      Where are you getting this statistic, and how do you define hardcore?

      by bustin98 on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 07:35:12 PM EDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  definition (none / 0)

        Hardcore Gamers are folks who spent most of there free time in playing/reading/writing/discussing about games. They also spend a lot of time competing or showing mastery of their gaming skill. In lot of ways they treat video gaming as normal sports.

        Now how do i know hardcore gamers are abandoning wii? ok may be i'll write about that some other time. In the meanwhile think about what the aforementioned folks have on wii to stick around given that they do have a 360/ps3/pc loaded (by comparison) with things they want to play.

        by naveeda on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 12:18:17 AM EDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  fdsa (none / 0)

    What exactly constitutes being a hardcore gamer?

    by Mel O Rama on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 08:15:43 PM EDT

  •  Awesome Article. (none / 0)

    Even better the second time through! Nice work man.
    I can definitely see your daughter with a pink D.S. in her hands...lol.

    But seriously I completely agree with your argument. Could, just a few years from today the best selling game be Cooking Mama? Well the way the Wii is selling it could certainly be dreamed. When looking at the success of games like Guitar Hero, it is obvious that there is a market for interactive games.
    However I get a shiver down my spine when I think that these games may dominate the gaming market. Ultimately I don't think it will come to that, but there always is that chance...

    I'll close with your words:

    "Don't get me wrong; I think it's cute that someone who likely had no idea what a video game was would suddenly plunk down her Social Security money so she can cook virtual meals, play a rousing game of table tennis and shark her little grandchildren out of their milk money in billiards."

    LOL Great writing man!

    "As for FFF we'll see how my social life unfolds that night. Which basically means i'll be gaming lol" -Boxin

    by SweetTea023 on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 09:44:10 PM EDT

  •  Well done! (none / 0)

    Are you moving into gaming journalism, papi?  Another avenue that should definitely be explored.  Very in-depth analysis that's pretty spot on.  It's really heartwarming to know that your daughter is so important to you,  I know my 4- & 19-yr. old daughters are to me!

    Friends don't let friends two-piece.

    by Blankman on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 10:16:53 PM EDT

  •  LOL (none / 0)

    joystiq's all over you papi...

    http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/07/brother-bleszinski-fears-wii-gives-publishers-terrible-ideas/

    gamertag: andres 360 "You killed my parents, and I don't like that kind of thing"

    by LovableGuy on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 11:36:54 PM EDT

  •  LOLzorz (none / 0)

    "4. I'd let Hannah Montana play with my Wii."

    Best comment I've ever seen.

    But yea, seems like you are causing quite a stir there Papi. Opinions FTW, eh Papi?

    "Vuht? Ze Panzerz? WHO LET ZE PANZERZ OUWT?!?!?!?!"

    by Grymm on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 12:02:29 AM EDT

  •  Great comments (none / 0)

    I completely agree with you. Some of my friends that have never even touched a video game controller are now beginning to buy the wii and games like Warioware and Rayman Raving Rabbits. I honestly don't think that they truly enjoy playing them, it's just that Nintendo makes it sound like they should enjoy playing them. The first time I played a wii, I was sorely disappointed. I was asking myself, "is this really as fun as Nintendo and the rest of the general public makes it sound?".
    I loved your closing comment
    "Me? I'll take "Kashmir" over "Staying Alive" any day of the week."
    To me the wii is like Fall out Boy... If they became popular at an alarming rate (especially for being terrible musicians), they will have to fade out at an alarming rate. Now a band like Red Hot Chili Peppers (who are actually talented), who came into the scene relatively slowly, will probably fade out of popularity slowly. For now, I think that these mini games are definitely a fad. I definitely see alot of potential in wii games, but the mini games have got to go if they want any hardcore gamers to buy the console. I think the desire for more mini-game type games will soon fade out as the general public and casual gamers begin to get bored and move onto the next fad. Then, Nintendo may have an actual next gen system.

    by MacheteMan7 on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 03:32:19 PM EDT

  •  Yet (none / 0)

    ANOTHER article about your controversial write-up Papi.

    http://www.gamesradar.com/us/wii/game/news/article.jsp?sectionId=1006&articleId=2007060814541563 064&releaseId=20060308165433320026

    "Vuht? Ze Panzerz? WHO LET ZE PANZERZ OUWT?!?!?!?!"

    by Grymm on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:11:17 AM EDT

  •  Here's another (none / 0)

    Hey, your article is getting read by everyone!  Why else do we write, except to be read?  Good for you, papi!  Great opportunities have arisen from lessen things.

    http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2007/06/08/pushing-buttons-the-casual-gamer-threat/

    by 3Suns on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 07:19:23 PM EDT

  •  is it just me? (none / 0)

    are people retarded? I mean, they totally didn't even read papi's write up before flaming him... the sites also hosted titles that were misleading a lot of the time.

    :/

    GEARHEADSOFWAR ftw!

    Not all who wander are lost

    by Zoso Fan on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 08:13:45 PM EDT

  •  Nope, people are retarded. (none / 0)

    by 3Suns on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 11:52:16 PM EDT

  •  It started... (none / 0)

    papi, this is practically a piece of direct evidence for your argument.  Cheers!

    Project H.A.M.M.E.R.  canceled
    http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31411

    by 3Suns on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 12:06:35 AM EDT

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