Controversy: Will It Hurt...or Help Too Human?

posted by papi blez

Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 11:09:04 PM EST

The release of a huge game that has a very long legacy is coming.  Not the 20 years of Madden, but yes, unless you have been living on Mars you know that Madden 09 is coming out this year.  I think it's the first Madden I might skip on in many years.  I find Madden just isn't my kind of game because I don't like to play defense or run the ball.  All I want to do is air it out.

Any way, sorry for digressing.  I wanted to ask the Gearheads whether they felt like all the controversy surrounding the Silicon Knights/Dennis Dyack project that's been in development for something like 10 years, Too Human, will wind up helping or hurting that game at the retail.  The game comes out August 19th.  I've played a little of the demo and while it seems pretty fun in short bursts, it doesn't seem like the kind of game that I would sink hours of my life into.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe I will love the game if I wind up with my hands on a retail copy.

But I'm wondering whether you think that ultimately this game will be appealing to the hard core fans it's aimed at.  Let's face it, I don't see a bunch of casual fans snapping this up.  Which is ironic about Dyack's dust-ups with the Neo-Gaf community.  These are the folks who would be plunking down the money for his opus.  So he goes on there and incites a near meltdown by first challenging posters to publicly say that they are either for or against Too Human.  Then he brings it full circle by calling them out on 1up Yours.  Why alienate those who will likely be making the game a success (or failure)?

The controversies have kept the name of the game out there.  I don't think there's a hardcore gamer out there that doesn't know about Too Human and when it is hitting retail.  Course some will reject it because of Dyack's approach alone.  That can be enough of a turnoff for people.  But I'm wondering, do you think that everything surrounding Too Human will help move more copies of a game that might've flown quite low under most people's radars?  Or do you think it will hurt because Dyack hasn't exactly ingratiated himself to the gaming community?  I'm guessing it will sell more copies than it might've originally sold because of all the publicity surrounding it.  But that's just a stab in the dark.

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  •  Well.... (none / 0)

    ...this is a tough question to answer. I think that the controversy will help the game for the basic reason that any publicity is good publicity, but I also think that Dennis's remarks stating that Too Human is the best game they have ever made is gonna work against him. With a statement of that sort there is no way the game can possibly live up to expectations.

    I for one think that the game will sell decent but no where near what M$ was expecting and not even in the realm of what a game that has been cooking for 10 years should produce.

    I thought the demo was just ok, but there was no spark when I played it. Just like when I kiss a woman for the first time I can tell if there is something that will keep me there for a long time or if I'm sneaking out of her bed in the morning. I'm sorry to say I think a lot of gamers will be going to Blockbuster or Gamefly for this one and pulling the "hit it and quit it" on Too Human.

    I've come to kick ass and chew bubblegum....and I'm all out of gum!

    by Fr33climb on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 12:36:00 AM EST

  •  Wish I could (none / 0)

    give some insight but Too Human is not on my radar.  Now that you've brought this up I will have to browse around the the nets to find some info on it, but if I remember correctly isnt it an RPG type game.  If that is the case thats the reason it isnt on my radar, I loathe those gametypes!  Just not my cup of tea.

    Oct 21/08 Nov 7/08

    by carr on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 01:46:47 AM EST

  •  Like what fr33climb said (none / 0)

    there was no "spark" the confrontations imo were repetitive (which isnt always bad, in this case they were) and i felt like i never have full control over what my character is doing, in respect to combat.

    Like what the bungie guys say, if you can nail that 30 seconds of fun and repeat it over and over you'll have a good game. In the case of too human theres no "fun" for me because the combat feels stiff, uninspired, and not very involved, and for a game that revolves around slaughtering countless hordes of baddies, thats kind of a big deal.

    by BoxinLeprechaun on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 02:54:42 AM EST

  •  I agree with Boxin & Freeclimb... (none / 0)

    Any publicity is good publicity.  The demo actually surprised me because it was entertaining.  However, is it worth a purchase from me.  No, would be my answer.  The only games that will fill out my year are Gears 2 and Left4Dead.  I'll pick up Fable 2 & Fallout 3 in '09 when the excitement of Gears & L4D has subsided enough for me to even think about another game.  

    I've read somewhere that Too Human's campaign is supposed to be somewhere around the 10-12 hours range.  The cutscenes that I've seen are lackluster and the character animation is too robotic because it's been in development for so long and has made the transition from so many engines.  I normally never waste money by renting games, but this has rental written all over it.  Too Human will probably sell about a million copies, but like Free has already stated that "Nowhere near what a game that's been cooking for ten years should produce."  

    MS is in a very precarious situation due to the SK vs. Epic litigation suit. MS is literally stuck in the middle since their publishing both games (Too Human & Gears 2) & they want to keep relations with Epic Games very close and friendly due to the use of the middleware engine & the future of the Gears franchise.

    I guess we'll see how Too Human plays out.

    Gears is MY Star Wars!!! Wooohhh!!!

    by Blankman on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 03:18:07 AM EST

  •  I don't know.... (none / 0)

    I know I fell for the publicity of Haze.  But that aside i'm avoiding Too Human due to the negativity that has been going on with them.  

    I don't know if it will hurt it too much but it may hurt initial sales until the reviews come out.  But again the reviewers may add a negative "Spin" on it due to all the publicity....

    Who knows how this industry works, not I.

    You will meet your maker, the "chainsaw" and POLANDSTYLE

    by Polandstyle on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:48:16 AM EST

    •  could you (none / 0)

      please give more details why you are avoiding Too Human because of the negativity..  

      by Dan Foster on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 12:05:59 PM EST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Why? (none / 0)

        I guess between the court battle over the UT3 engine (every business has it's legal issues) but that is highly negative right from the start.  But the court case aside.  The publicity that i have been reading is that this game is very repetitious and gets old fast.  But due to the fact that this game was slated for the PS1 years ago makes me wonder.  This is why i made note of "Haze" that was another game in a long development cycle.  Let alone going to Nintendo for the Gamecube then the 360, what a development cycle.

        If you get stuck in a rut the storyline i can assume didn't change but things over the years have changed, does that mean anything i don't know.

        I just have my doubts about the game.

        Oh, and add the "The Goblin Man of Norway" which was the worst (boring) marketing tool there.  They could have mustered something up if they wanted to a bit better.

        But again as Papi said the "hardcore" gamers will get it.  I will wait for reviews i don't want to fall into any more traps.

        I guess i really cannot comment too much as i have been following this game not as close as a lot of you all.  I just have some negative feelings about this game and i didn't play the demo yet or if i did it didn't leave an impression with me.

        You will meet your maker, the "chainsaw" and POLANDSTYLE

        by Polandstyle on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 04:22:47 PM EST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Beyond the UTIII lawsuit (none / 0)

    I saw very little publicity besides the almost annoying hype on every game site.  This is mostly due to, as Poland said, the lawsuit giving the game's image little taste, as it seemed more as a scapegoating effort for the developing issues of the game.

    I did enjoy the demo though, and I found that the release of the demo a month early and that it had a rather significant replay value and most importantly, was enjoyable, was a smart move on Silicon Knights and Microsoft's part.  I will not be buying it most likely, as there are too many titles coming this fall that I feel more obliged to purchasing.  I will rent it though, and give the full product a test drive.

    The word is out there though, and it will sell quite well.  Whether its a good game, well, that's up to everyone besides Dennis Dyack.

    ArkkAngel007

    by Mr C on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 05:51:56 PM EST

    •  "Scapegoat". Great point. (none / 0)

      Since James Bond movies and War Games, I have been fascinated by the creativity and power of clever "geeks" with electronics.  Later, I was most delightfully introduced to the concept of coders calling each others skills "kung fu" in the X-Files series with the introduction of the Lone Gunmen (football for the blind anyone?! ROTFL).

      What captures my interest is not when developers make nonspecific, superlative statements about their game, it is when they describe the process of overcoming particular challenges they faced in making it.  THIS is a prime example.  It gives me confidence in the developer both as someone who wants to make the game as perfect as possible and as someone who has actually accomplished that.  It makes me want their game all the more.

      Many companies have been working with the UT3 tools.  Silicon Knights is the only one to publicly and legally cry about how difficult it is to use.  From the first complaint reported, I lost some respect for their "kung fu".  I like my martial arts heroes to be able to kick some serious ass - not go whining to mommy because they couldn't stand up for themselves.

      Rockstar has certainly benefited from "All publicity is good publicity".  But for me personally, the Silicon Knight's lawsuit was a total turn-off - bunch of crybabies was my first and lasting reaction.  Good luck to them, but I ain't buyin'.

      Just as an aside, I can't think of a single game that I like that was in development for more than 5 years.  Anything more than about five and it tells me that it is probably going to be a jumbled mess due to a probable lack of direction, skills/disciple to pull it off, and changes in technology.  

      "Gears2 has legs, and they go all the way up!"

      by 3Suns on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 02:50:50 AM EST

      [ Parent ]

      •   I need to add that (none / 0)

        my decision not to buy now, is not a malicious boycotting thing.  Ultimately, I just don't like anything (e.g., the genre, the "story", the gameplay) about Too Human.

        "Gears2 has legs, and they go all the way up!"

        by 3Suns on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 02:58:40 AM EST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Great thoughts, Suns. (none / 0)

        I try not to take the side of Epic Games as a "homer," but you are correct in your sentiments about SK's lawsuit over the middleware debacle.  Like I said, I try not to be an avid supporter of Epic, but practically everything that they've done leads me to keep supporting them.  Let's face it, practically half of the industry is using some form on the Unreal engine.  Has it been perfect?  No.  It's always been a constant work in progress.  SK needed someone to scapegoat because of their dismal showing of Too Human at E3 several years back.  Take it like a man, stop trying to pawn off your problems when you get your ego dinged.

        As far as the numerous years in development goes; the only other game that comes to mind was Prey.  It was a pretty entertaining game even though the graphics looked dated due to their usage of the Doom 3 engine.  Don't even open that can of worms about Duke Nukem Forever.  Until it actually surfaces, it's still vaporware.  I'm not talking about a few screenshots or pre-rendered trailer either.  I'm talking actual gameplay footage.

        Gears is MY Star Wars!!! Wooohhh!!!

        by Blankman on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 03:03:30 AM EST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And another thing after reading... (none / 0)

          Cliff's post, is it me or is Scarlett Johansson "not" hot?  She's attractive, but she does absolutely nothing for me.  I just don't get what the hub bub over her is.

          Gears is MY Star Wars!!! Wooohhh!!!

          by Blankman on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 03:09:50 AM EST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I had completely forgotten (none / 0)

          about the timing of their suit, being just after that disasterous E3.  Yeah, that impacted my impression of them at the time.

          I totally agree about being an Epic "homer". I'm not, or I would have bought UT.  As it is, I have never purchased a UT game (many would say to my loss). I have, however, purchased BioShock (made with the UT3 Engine) and loved every minute that I played.  Contrarily, Mass Effect is another UT3 Engine, critically acclaimed game, that I had no interest in at all.  

          "Until it [Duke Nukem] actually surfaces, it's still vaporware."  YES!  It is an apparition that has to prove it is substantive.

           

          "Gears2 has legs, and they go all the way up!"

          by 3Suns on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 10:05:45 AM EST

          [ Parent ]

  •  What's gonna hurt the game is the shitty gameplay. (none / 0)

    Han shot first

    by tyrus on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 08:28:11 PM EST

  •  You guys know my opinion (looking at you Chris)lol (none / 0)

    I can see me self playing this for hours/days. OK the controls need ALOT of work but i'm whilling to sacrifice that for this game as the RPG elements ALONE get my balls going. The story well lets just i'm looking forward to it.

    Brumak porn... love it!

    by HELLFIRE V1 on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 01:54:44 PM EST

  •  It got a 6.75 (none / 0)

    review from gameinformer this might be the new haze.

    by amato18 on Tue Aug 12, 2008 at 04:16:28 PM EST

  •  idk this game (none / 0)

    looks good to me.  i really think it has a lot of potential than people think with the co op and all.

    Im not buying it though, just a rent due to lack of cash.

    Im "Geared Up" are you?

    by Scotty247 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 04:11:25 PM EST

  •  thought the demo (none / 0)

    was pretty solid. the whole moving and holding the right analog stick in one direction to attack is pretty gay, but when you're a berserker, its soo much fun because its a one hit kill on most enemies, so you destroy everyone. Probably going to buy it because I need a game to play until RB2 next month.

    by RoBBins0096 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 04:13:48 PM EST

  •  imma rent it (none / 0)

    fun game.

    Not all who wander are lost

    by Zoso Fan on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 04:36:54 PM EST

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